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Can we detect a stopped muzzle, Calfee

I believe I've found a way to use the "water in the bore" issue, to determine if we have our muzzle stopped....
I ran two tests last evening that were most encouraging.....I make no claims yet......but last evening was very positive...I'm trying not to get too excited, but down deep inside I am....
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I love accuracy so I have to test...

My friends, to advance anything in this old world takes two very important things: An idea, and, a willingness to change......if you have an idea, but not willing to change, no advancement happens....if you are willing to change but have no ideas, no advancement happens...
I have both of the above. - .here is nothing in precision shooting that I take at face value. - .must know..must see it!

I have been running some tests......today, I will describe the gun I'm using. The barrel is .825" in diameter, straight, breech to muzzle and 24 inches long. I hung this barrel up and rang it and it called for a muzzle device weight of approx 14 ounces......Is ringing a barrel an exact science, of course not, but it will get one in the ballpark....
When I took this rifle to the range, I pretended like I was a rimfire benchrest shooter with a new rifle, making his first attempt to set his muzzle device (tuner)..... I had fit a Hoehn style, screw adjustment, muzzle device to it it, and had with me a set of the RvA screw-in weights....
I started the test with the device only......
Shooting from a good rest that will RTB very good, I fouled the bore with three shots then moved to an aiming bull, with the muzzle device set at zero and fired two shots, as fast as I could load and shoot......I moved to another aiming bull and repeated the same two shots.....I did this 5 times......I had vertical....
I moved the screw adjustment to 250 and repeated the process....still vertical.....
I move the screw adjustment to 500 and repeated, still with vertical....
I then started adding the RvA weights...first a one ounce.....I repeated the above test but still vertical.....I had set the screw adjustment to 250..mid range..
I then added another 1 ounce aluminum weight and repeated the test....the vertical was less........
I then added a 2 ounce steel weight and repeated the test....... I got real lucky......the vertical left....entirely...

I then set up an ARA target and shot an easy 2250........I have a little, clear, plastic overlay that I can use to convert and ARA target to and IR-50 target or an RBA target.......this 2250 ARA card converted to a 250x18X IR-50 card... this little rifle is pretty darn competitive.......right now....
BUT...............as I will describe when I have more time, the muzzle of this little rifle is not stopped.........and this is where a lot of folks find themselves as they attempt to use a muzzle device.....including me most of my life...

MY friends, this is so very important, this stopped muzzle thing.....

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Earlier I described a rifle I'm building and testing......I played with the muzzle device and got it shooting pretty darn good.....but, like I said, the muzzle wasn't stopped......how do I know this?
I set the rifle up in my rest, that will RTB very good......I fouled the bore with a couple of shots, then moved to an aiming bull........shooting conditions were excellent...
I then fired three rounds RTB as quickly as I could.......but, I did not eject the case from the third round.......I lifted the bolt handle, withdrew the bolt enough to pull the case out of the chamber, which broke the seal between the case and the chamber. There is a chimney affect through the bore of a rifle barrel.......I waited a couple of seconds, then pushed the empty case back into the chamber and closed the breech bolt......if I would have ejected the third case and loaded the forth, I'd broken the seal to the bore......
At this point the forth round is standing in the loading block....cool.....
I waited about a minute, then ejected the third case, inserted the "cool" forth case, pushed the rifle forward and fired.....
I ran this procedure 10 times......3 times the forth shot did not enlarge the group.......7 times the forth shot was a flipper, usually high and slightly left....
Based on this test, the muzzle of this little rifle is not stopped.....in other words, as it is, this little rifle will not wait for me......
There's more to the story.....I'll finish when I get some more free time...

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I have a new idea that uses the water which forms in the bore after a shot has been fired that looks like it may be the best indicator of all in determining if I have my muzzle stopped.....

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I think I've maybe got a new way to tell if our muzzles are stopped....
I've been shooting two rounds, then waiting for a minute, then firing another round.......I'm finding if the muzzle device (some call the thing a tuner) is set correctly, my third round goes in the group.......generally...
If my muzzle device is not set correctly, that third round is a flipper......most of the time.....

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Muzzle device folks: Fire two rounds, wait a minute or two. then fire the third.....
Did the third round center the group?
If not, adjust your muzzle device, then repeat the test......
My dear friends, I ain't got all the answers yet, but, when you get your muzzle device set so that the third round centers the group, after waiting a minute or two........you have stopped your muzzle....oh yes you have...

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Four of my last six rifles have wound up with barrels the exact same length....which is blind lucky as when I slugged, measured the bores and evaluated them I was allowed to make them all 23 1/2 inches long....

A warning, never fit a rifle barrel until you completely evaluate the bore to determine where the barrel wants to be crowned and chambered, never...if you do, your leaving you success to blind luck......we just can't cut a barrel at say 24 inches if it don't want to be cut there........so please don't start cutting your barrels at 23 1/2 inches, unless your barrel will allow it, OK?

Anyway, three of these last four rifles have wound up with the muzzle device with the exact same weight and exact same placement on the muzzle.....

The school is still out on the forth as it is bedded differently than the frist three.....and by the way, them three barrels are currently dominating rimfire benchrest shooting from Missouri to North Carolina....

What does all this mean? I ain't completely sure yet......I do know that we can fit a muzzle device and have the rifle shoot simply killer, with it just at the entrance or exit of the parallel node, not at its exact center,....but, if anything changes, anything, that will cause a slight difference in velocity, those rifles will bounce off the front or back end of the parallel node and pick up the part cycle and the muzzle device will need to be re-adjusted.......like I've said from the beginning, if one has to fool with his muzzle device, either testing or during a match, the muzzle ain't stopped on that barrel...

I've also fit two more barrels, with stopped muzzles, but the barrels were smaller in diameter, although 23 and 24 inches long and they needed an entirely different muzzle device arrangement.....which gets us right back to what I've said all along; A muzzle device of the corrrect weight, and placement, ahead of the barrels muzzle, can actually stop the muzzle vibrations......

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A 26 inch barrel I've been working with is killer, but it does not wait for me....I do not have the muzzle device properly weighted or positioned......but, I shot back to back 2300-2325's ARA's with it tonight....

But, if I change velocity, it don't work near as good.....my muzzle ain't stopped yet...

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I am headed to the range now, finally, to run some more tests on this 26" barrel, I spoke of earlier, that won't wait for me cause I ain't got the muzzle stopped yet........I have fit a different, slightly heavier, muzzle device....., with this rifle, I'm bouncing off the parallel node.....it shoots awesome, as long as I don't change ammo....or, let it set and build up water in the bore, which changes velocity.....it won't wait for me yet....in other words..

If you folks can keep in mind something......and this is the whole nuts and bolts of this muzzle device stuff......the parallel node's exact center never gets any closer, nor farther away from the exit of the crown.....so if we can somehow fool the barrel into moving the exact center of the parallel node to the crown, we've stopped our muzzle.....See, the parallel node does get longer, or shorter, as muzzle vibrations increase or decrease.......but it's exact center never moves in relation to the crown........if I've not explained this right, then think about it for a while......when you see what I'm doing my best to describe, man, this muzzle device thing and a stopped muzzle will be like lightning striking in your thoughts..........
Once the muzzle is stopped, we no longer ever fool with the muzzle device...
I want you to imagine something, OK? Say I lay out a circle with a chalk mark, on a concrete runway, that has a diameter of about 192 feet.......you've been blindfolded as I do this...
OK, I place you down on your knees, have you look straight down, put your face about a foot from the runway surface, then I remove the blindfold.....and I ask you to look straight down at the chalk mark....I then ask you if the mark you are looking at is straight or curved? It would be impossible for any human being to determine if the mark was straight or curved.........even though the mark is really curved...do you see where I'm going?
I'm headed to the range to see if I can stop the muzzle on this fine 26 inch barrel....ok, it's a killer now, it just ain't got the muzzle stopped yet...

Think about the big circle thing.......that big circle is the parallel node in a rifle barrel when fired.......
I ain't got no education, and I ain't no engineer, nor I ain't no scientist and I for sure don't understand no math.....but, I understand exactly, in every detail, how a rifle barrel vibrates when fired.........and I know exactly how to control those vibrations to completely stop our muzzles.......

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I've been discussing a 26 inch barrel that I've been working on......and the fact that I ain't got the muzzle stopped yet...

I asked a friend of mine to shoot this barrel in a registered ARA match today..
Today, this friend, won the match, against some big time shooters. with the muzzle not stopped.......and he turned some big time scores...

Here is the point.......I have this fine barrel on the paralled node.....but I do not have the exact center of the parallel node at the crown..
If my friend needed to change ammo, velocity, he couldn't have drawn a smell, today, .....cause this muzzle isn't stopped...

If you say, "if he won, against some big time shooters, what matters if the muzzle is stopped or not?" Do you want to be setting at the bench, during a big match, or a little match, and have to worry about re-setting your muzzle device, (tuner) ? Of course not....!
When we stop our muzzles, no more adjustments of the muzzle device are ever necessary......

We have so much to do...... I have made up my mind that, that killer 26 inch barrel that my friend won with today is going to be put on SPEC 6........

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Have you folks thought any more about the chalk line on the airport runway?
The one 192 feet in diameter? The chalk line that represents the parallel node.....?

Folks, a rifle barrel, not being fired, is a parallel node from the face of the action to the muzzle......the whole barrel is the parallel node in other words.
But when the rifle is fired, depending on the velocity, the parallel node then shortens up...... Some folks find it hard to believe that there can be a part of a rifle barrel that is actually stopped, when the rifle is fired.....

As hard it is to believe, there is.

In this thread so far I have given information for anyone to use so you can determine when you have your muzzle device positioned and weighted properly to move the exact center of the parallel node to the exit of the crown....

Why am I doing this thread? I love accuracy, it's no more complicated nor simple than that. Do I write in such a way so you may have to "dig" a little? Yes.

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When I developed the first muzzle attached, muzzle devices, (tuners) I knew they had to be adjustable as all barrels were different....
And for the first few years I also believed we changed them as we changed loads......

I produced a rifle for a feller who started winning everything....I had to know why.....
After discussing the rifle with him I found out that he had never adjusted his muzzle device....even though he shot several different velocities of ammo and won with them all......
I had another feller, who went to winning everything, tell me he never adjusted his muzzle device and this feller was a tremendous condition shooter......he'd shoot some then if the condition changed, he set there and waited, sometimes a couple or three minutes, till the condition came back...he had the rifle pointed and just watched conditions, then he would pull the trigger, never looking back through the scope......and most generally, he's punch the middle out.......in other words, his rifle would wait for him!!!!!
The fact that his rifle waited for him didn't dawn on me as a factor till a short time ago......

Had another gentleman send me a rifle back to re-barrel, after 9 years and he had never adjusted the muzzle device one time....it was where I had set it in my tests when I built it...and he had won everything, several times....

I got to thinking, how come these folks, and several others, never adjusted their muzzle device......and they were big time world record holders and national champions?

The reason they didn't is because they didn't have to.....their muzzles were stopped! Was of course by accident back then, that the muzzle device got placed in the correct position and was of the correct weight to stop their muzzles....

Some years ago I changed my mind entirely about my muzzle devices...
If the muzzle device is of the correct weight and placement, one can stop their muzzle, thereafter no more adjusting is ever necessary...

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On another thread I made the statement that I had ran the first test on a new sporter and found I had vertical....and was getting ready to remove some material at the muzzle until I killed the vertical...
You asked something like; Bill, did you slug the bore and crown at the tightest place in the barrel, and if so, how can you now cut the muzzle back?
The sporter I'm working on, hopefully my last ever, is for RBA and IR-50 shooting......in that class one can not use an attached muzzle device, (tuner). and the rifle can weigh no more than 7 1/2 pounds..

10 years ago I developed my Calfee Sporter Profile which incorporates a non adjustable muzzle device in the barrel....it took about a year of testing to determine how to make the profile so it could be repeated on the next barrel.....and to do all of this in a 7 1/2 pound rifle....IR-50 ruled it legal.....now everyone uses it... Anyway, this profile has an enlarged muzzle end with the crown placed about 2 inches deep..... When I turn the profile, I leave a little extra on the muzzle end....it's easy to remove material but difficult to put it back......
I range test.....if I have no vertical, I'm done....if I do have vertical, is my muzzle device too heavy or too light? How do I determine this? I have a 1 ounce clamp ring......that will clamp around the muzzle device.

On my first test with this sporter, I had vertical...I installed the 1 ounce clamp ring.....then re-tested......THANK GOD THE VERTICAL GOT WORSE.....if the barrel shot better with the extra weight, I'm in trouble.....the only option I would have would be to move the actual crown back, exposing more weight past the end of the crown, but, then I wouldn't be at the tightest place in the bore........in other words, the barrel would be worthless, most likely... So I needed to remove some material, which I did, in two .010" cuts, testing after the first cut......then the second... I now have no vertical.....and I got extremely lucky as this barrel will now wait for me......my last two groups, with my friend Randy Hopewell watching conditions for me, he can read them, I can't too good, went .039" and .105" and I waited at least one minute between shots....

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One of the pieces of correspondence I've received about this thread was from a fellow I built a rifle for about a year ago......a very good rifle....this gentleman has already won some big matches and turned some big numbers with it.......with the muzzle device positioned where I had it after my range tests......
He said he read this thread and decided to see if he could get the rifle to wait for him....
He made some very small adjustments, his muzzle device is the click adjustable type, and hit a point where his rifle waited for him for 8 straight shots.....

My friends, it's obvious when I sent this gentleman his rifle I had the muzzle device set so that just the beginning of the parallel node was at the crown, not it's exact center.....he's been using a lot number of ammo that I set the muzzle device with......so until he runs out of this velocity ammo, he can turn big scores without the exact center of the parallel node at the crown...... I sent him his rifle before I developed my "water in the bore" test I'm now using....I used my old test procedure on his rifle....
Now this gentleman can change velocities or have a "hot" round and not get such a flipper, cause his muzzle is stopped......and of course the rifle will now wait for him.....which can be a big advantage in switching conditions....

I ain't get everything completely figured yet on my water method, but I believe I'm pretty darn close....and it looks like all the big wins around the country, lately, are proving it...My friend DJ Hepler just won the IR-50 Unlimited Nationals today using SPEC 13 that I used the water method to set his muzzle device with...

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I sometimes wonder what would be the best way to address centerfire muzzle devices, some folks call the things tuners, without hurting any of you wonderful centerfire folk's feelings.......see, I was one of you years ago.... I know, when I first started centerfire benchrest, I would have hollered to the hills if some old, dumb, rimfire guy tried to tell me how to make centerfire accuracy.....man, us centerfire benchrester's shoot the most accurate rifles in the world, ain't no body going to tell us how it's done.... Us centerfire benchresters would love to think that we are so special, that what applies to the rest of the accuracy world, can't possibly apply to us....we are different......we shoot the most accurate rifles in the world, don't we?
My dear centerfire friends, a muzzle device works exactly the same on a rimfire, or a centerfire or a muzzle loader or a tank cannon..... A muzzle device, of the correct weight, placed properly ahead of the muzzle, has the ability to stop the muzzle vibrations, thereafter, no adjustments of the muzzle device are ever necessary....
I've posted this thread to try to give you wonderful centerfire folks a head start.....gosh, I wish someone would have done the same for me 20 years ago....

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Man, this water-in-the-bore test is even surprising me.....Just came in again from the range.......this is such a better way to attempt to determine correct weight, and placement, of the muzzle device so we have the exact center of the parallel node at the crown, effectively stopping the muzzle.... My old 42 yard, two velocity test, was good, but, I couldn't use it on some types of guns cause I had not figured out the barrel time in those situations, ie., correct distance at which to run the test for my pistols and for folks from a sling... My water-in-the-bore test has no limitations, as far as I can see.....

Remember when I was discussing the chalk line on the airport runway? Ok, say you look down at a circle, from about a foot away, that is 602 feet in circumference...ok? It would be extremely hard to tell if the line was curved.....

Now, one of the pieces of correspondence I have received about this thread, made a great observation.....I'm paraphrasing: The gentleman, from Hopkins, Minnesota.....I won't use his name but he will know it's him........said something to the effect that, Bill, if you're relating this circle to the vibration pattern of a rifle barrel when fired, and the barrel was 22 inches long, or so, and the thing you call a parallel node is only a small portion of the length of the barrel, say an inch or two, then for all practical purposes, the parallel node can really be a straight section of the bore........BINGO.....THANK YOU MY FRIEND..

Oh my friends, can we stop our muzzles, oh yes.....do we need to be constantly adjusting our muzzles devices......of course not......

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I only know how to ring the barrel only.....not on the completed rifle....so my figures apply to the barrel only....

I never test a new barrel without a muzzle device attached....Why would I, the barrel is going to have a muzzle device......I can't afford to waste ammo testing the bare barrel....they ain't no one going to build a competitive rifle anymore without a muzzle device.....at least not for long in centerfire.....

I can't remember the last time I saw a rimfire benchrest rifle at a match without a muzzle device....a barrel simply can not shoot as good without a muzzle device as it can with one....rimfire or centerfire....device....a barrel simply can not shoot as good without a muzzle device as it can with one....rimfire or centerfire....

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A case in point: Doug Brown, of Salem, Indiana has been shooting benchrest for several years.....he has had some fair success, turned some outstanding targets, but, not been right at the top........

Doug saw this thread......decided to follow my instructions and see if he could improve his already "good" equipment, and make it killer..... He uses a Hoehn/Harrels style click adjustable muzzle device.....he borrowed a set of the RVA screw-in weights and started running tests.....he determined the additional weight needed, and placement, then started with an 8 ounce screw-in weight and rough cut it slightly heavier than his RVA's told him he needed, to stop his muzzle...
He then tested, trimmed some weight, tested more, trimmed more, and got the solid weight to duplicate what the RVA's did...
I know about this because Doug came to my shop for me to put a little radius, just break the sharp egdge without losing any weight, on the inside lip of the screw-in weight....he wanted it to look neat, not cobbed up.....I did as he directed....
When Doug left the shop, he said, "Bill, I think I'm ready for them at Livonia Saturday night"....Livonia has a tough crowd of shooters......."I think I have my rifle stopped now....I'm ready for them, you'll see......."
Friend Doug Brown, Congratulations on that Awesome win last evening at Livonia!!!!!!

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"Once your muzzle is stopped, the muzzle device will never need to be adjusted again, for the life of the barrel...."
....a muzzle device is used to tune the barrel......"once".....not the load we're using.......

I think the worst thing that has happened since I developed my muzzle devices, is, that someone applied the name "tuner" to them......what a terrible mistake... If you are adjusting your muzzle device during a match, oh my dear friends, your muzzle ain't stopped...... Once your muzzle is stopped, then you can spend your time developing ammo, and learning how to point the rifle, as the muzzle device will never need to be adjusted again, ever, for the life of that barrel...

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Man, there are some killer barrels being made as I type this......barrel makers are finding how extremely important it is to have some taper to the bore.....makes, making killers so much easier..... And to go with those killer barrels, we now know how to apply one of my muzzle devices, in such a way, as to actually "stop" the vibrations of the muzzle.....it's simply awesome!

Lets, think about the chalk circle on the airport runway...... A barrel 24 inches long has a vibration pattern that is approx the same radius as that 602 foot chalk circle....
See my dear friends, if there was no such thing as a "parallel node" in the vibration pattern of a rifle barrel, when fired, attaching a weight to the muzzle of a rifle barrel would produce absolutely nothing in relation to increased accuracy.....
What a time to be involved in the search for ultimate accuracy.....without my muzzle attached, muzzle devices, ultimate accuracy can never be achieved...

A rifle barrel simply can not produce the accuracy, without one of my muzzle devices, as it can with one, properly adjusted and weighted.....it's impossible to ignore this fact !
This is why I'm taking time to do this thread......before my time on earth is over, I want to see sub tenth aggs, on a regular basis, in short range centerfire benchrest.....it can never happen without the use of my muzzle devices.......it WILL happen when my muzzle devices become widely used, which will happen shortly...there's nothing that can stop it....the horse is out of the barn, forever......


After Thread #27 Dtd 7/22/08 is where I stopped. Doug
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